At Skeptics forum William Seger starts a thread about Fetzer and Barrett's latest "fall out".
I don't have time to detail all their previous "disagreements" and "fall outs", but I certainly hope people posting thing like this are being ironic:
Classic! Is there anything that has more entertainment value that either
one of these two clowns? Fetzer/Barrett...its like Truther
Kindergarten, a couple of 5 year olds yelling "Oh, yeah??" at each
other. Wait...a couple of 5 year olds would show more maturity.
Because anyone familiar with these frauds history know this is a con.
Seger writes:
Their last archived show together was on December 10, with Barrett (a Muslim) reporting from Paris where he was attending a "False
Flag Islamophobia Conference" (which he says is a protest to another
Islamophobia conference that had rejected his paper on "False Flags and
Islamophobia"). Barrett talks about Donald Trump "saying Muslims
shouldn't be allowed into the United States. That means, I guess, I'd
have to stay here in Paris. I couldn't get back in. I'm gonna have to
ask Jim Fetzer to explain what's going on with Donald Trump," It turns
out, Fetzer is down with that plan, so things heat up. Then something
triggers Fetzer into attacking Barrett for being homophobic and Barrett
counters by calling Fetzer a "bombastic loudmouth *******." They managed
to finish the show, but apparently continued the discussion later...
Highlighted text is a strong clue this is just another 'Sode in a long line of fake fights, falling outs and branding games frauds like Fetzer, Craig Lazo (killtown), and Barrett play to keep the rubes confused. It started with the Scholars "split" and hasn't stopped in almost 10 years.
"The Moral Arc"? That's some extreme narcissist bollocks.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel there.
But what else do persons connected to trutherism have left but the fringe of the fringe? Ventura isn't alone in using dubious associations to promote trutherism.
Manny Badillo was many "truthers" Facebook and Twitter friend in spite of his sex offender status
[For the record, when I first heard of these charges, it took repeated questions before people finally said, "Yeah, okay, he's probably guilty.". To which my response was, "WTF? Then why is he still around?" No good answers were forthcoming... ]
For instance, Bursill has Manny among his fwiends:
[Historical note: Bursill registered to Craig Lazo's defunct forum a couple days before it was deleted to promote an Aussy truth tour, months after starting a thread at truthaction.org claiming to be concerned about Lazo's 'Killtown' disinfo. Evidence like that I don't publish, but I do keep to give to authorities the next time these sleazeballs push a con.]
'Fools' might sound harsh, but they are either fools or scammers and opportunists if their activities over the years are any indication. They stopped credible debunking ages ago, really by early-mid 2007. There after the blog was little more than copy pasta of other, credible debunkers, with the main course being an amplifier for "truther" gossip.
The latest blog post is much in the same vein though not as irresponsible as some. JamesB logs in to write it, linking to a video:
"Jesse Ventura and Michael Shermer"
Only
a bit on 9/11, but skeptic Michael Shermer and conspiracy theorist
extraordinaire Jesse Ventura have what actually is a relatively amiable conversation.
Why this is even slightly newsworthy for skeptics is baffling to me. As it was blogged 3 days after the interview, it clearly wasn't topical or urgent to anyone. A search of "Jesse Ventura and Michael Shermer" show literally no English language blog besides SLC covered it, not even the usual conspiracy outlets(at least not with that title):
It might be because both DiNatale and Badillo were legally convicted as opposed to being convicted in the court of public opinion, which admittedly is very YMMV. In Shermer's case one could say, well, he's not convicted so he's innocent. But reading the history this is very unlikely. Normal, non predatory people do not have a history going back years of predatory behavior. So even if I don't expect SLC to denounce Shermer, I do expect ethical, responsible people to not give Shermer a platform or publicity.
And while the rape accusations may not be proved in court, Shermer's overly friendly association with Holocaust Denier David Cole is unquestionable thanks to photographic evidence. Shermer has yet to explain their chumminess TTBOMK.
[This is all aside from another serious issue regarding the SLC blog: like Mr. Lazo they log into their blog regularly, so, like Mr. Lazo, they have no reason not to clean their blog up.]
Whatever the SLC fools intentions claim to be, giving either Shermer or Ventura publicity isn't helping anyone...except the conspiracy industry they both profit from.
So, unless SLC has a dog in that race, it's an odd choice for an alleged debunking blog. At this point there is no point to discussing trutherism except to expose it--and report its frontmen--as a scam.
"casseia": 15 visits between Aug 9, 2009 and Aug 15, 2009 from Comcast Cable (24.xxx-xxx-xxx)
Fetzer's friend Gustavo Espada: 14 visits between Aug 9, 2009 and Aug 14, 2009 from at least 4 ISPs, two of which were Harvard,
Harvard University (140.247.112-xxx) and (140.247.249-xxx)
"Brainster": 1 visit Aug 11, 2009, proving he was well aware of CIT activities. Cox Communications (68.xxx-xxx-xxx)
Adam Syed(a conman who I have recently been informed has a relationship with Espada going back to 2007, notable because in 2008 he contacted the then webmasters under false pretences, claiming to share "concerns" about Espada.): 3 visits from Aug 13 2009 to Aug 15 2009
And of course multiple visits from Craig Ranke from multiple ISPs, 35 from this one alone: Cox Communications (68.xxx-xxx-xxx)
For people involved in pushing a fraud, they were awfully cavalier about their Internet browsing habits.
The Worse:
Antisemites and their enablers worried that Holocaust denial was getting the kicking it deserved...but not worried enough to stop trying to recuit leftists into "trutherism":
truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6456
Casseia: May 28, 2010 to April 23, 2010 (24.xxx-xxx-xxx)
Jennifer Wynhausen(possibly Craig Lazo on her computer): April 29, 2010 (76.xxx-xxx-xxx))
Espada: April 24, 2010 to May 26, 2010, multiple ISPs, including Harvard and residence(98.xxx-xxx-xxx)
Syed: May 28, 2010 to April 23, 2010 (71.xxx-xxx-xxx)
Brainster: April 24, 2010 to May 27, 2010 (71.xxx-xxx-xxx), proving he was 100% aware I was not and had never been a Holocaust Denier, ergo any involvement in "trutherism" had to be a con. Because, how else would that happen?
The Really Bad:
Last post supporting trutherism, with a clear intent to move on.
This one is using an ipad from a static ISP in Liverpool: (188.xxx-xxx-xxx) and seems to be taking an unhealthy interest in my past online activities, for at least 11 hours. This makes me wonder if new lies are being spun as we speak.
Which would be very, very bad for the people who own a couple of the top 911 website properties who have been informed this is exactly the sort of thing they should not do any more.
No, I'm not talking about 911blogger, though if the owners of that dodgy website had honored my request to delete my account, and every post there, because I want nothing I've written to go to supporting a fraud...weeeell, I wouldn't know this creepy git--presumably a friend of theirs-was snooping about.
See, years ago, after being conned into trutherism, as soon as I realized something odd was going on, I took it upon myself to contact people who really know how the Internet works. As a result, I know quite a bit about who has been lying about what. And updates still come in.
The creeps should chew on that a mo.
After 2008, I always knew who was talking to whom, and that they were frauds. I just didn't understand why. It took a while to lose the idea these creeps were government agents, and see them for the political con artists they are.
Back to lurker. I could be wrong about them. Maybe, he/she is just stumbled across that blog. Except, as old as it is, the only way they could do that is through the old profile...that is only there because the owners of that dodgy website have not honored my request to delete my account and every post there. Playing the odds, this is a creep working on some new creepiness.
Some advice? Stop while you're ahead.
To many it seems obvious the claims of "cointelpro agents" or CIA agents sent to disrupt or stop the "truth from coming out is paranoid conspiracy nonsense, along with "concerns" about the New World Order Illuminati Jews being behind everything.
But if the introduction to a group or email list was based on something much more reasonable--social justice work, peace activism, protesting the war in Iraq-- the idea of is not impossible, though one is unlikely to take it too seriously, at least at first.
The problem is, in the history of real activism, there were government programs funded to infiltrate, and in some cases disrupt, legitimate activist groups. The American Indian and the civil rights movements are a couple of cases. The Cointelpro program is a documented example. The motives were a mix of institutional reactionary conservatism and genuine cultural suspicions of radical new movements, never mind their goals were social justice. To get an idea of the mentality behind infiltrating peace groups, imagine that most people employed in powerful government positions were Tea Partiers. There wouldn't be a "Tea Party" because they'd be running the show and want to keep it that way.
Fast forward to today. The institutional conservatism of yesteryear has crumbled. Dinosaurs from the pre-civil rights past can no longer depend on being humoured except in the most backward of states. Even the GOP has all but abandoned the gay rights/marriage "values" battle as not being worth the fight. But there remains a sizeable population who feels aggrieved, as if recognizing other peoples human rights somehow takes away theirs. And while these people have no political pull outside of reactionary circles, they do have cash that can be flimflammed out of them by promises to return to the "Good Old Days".
This a political fraud Ron Paul became quite expert at, though he's not the only one. It has several necessary parts:
1. Scapegoatism. It almost doesn't matter who the scapegoat starts out as. Eventually it will be revealed to be "Jews".
2. Appeal to Authority: claiming to be expert, experienced, in possession of special knowledge. Which Leads to.
3: Persecution complex : the reason this knowledge is not well known is because of "distruptors" or "agents" trying to muddle the waters with "disinfo". Eventually the following question will be asked:
4: Why have "they" not killed off the keeper of secrets? The frauds are still working on this one. Usually once someone starts asking this question, whether a skeptic or a believer who is having doubts, the person's criticisms are written off as the ravings of an "agent" out to suppress the truth.
This is a self contained loop. All problems the believer has are due to a "scapegoat", the "authority" has secret information they dispense that no one knows because they are persecuted by the "scapegoat". Never mind the all powerful scapegoat makes no move to kill or disrupt the "authoritys" life, or, at the very least, have their websites removed. Which would be really easy for "government funded agent" to do. One fabricated claim of Child Pornography on the servers would do the trick.
This illogic loop keeps people engaged as increasingly more alarming stories of police state repression, often taken out of context (if not outright lies), that are spread to keep the faith. Religious terminology is being used deliberately, because claims of waking up sheeple to the contrary, the last thing the people benefiting from the truther fraud want is anyone thinking level headed about the issue. The depressing fact is most people sucked into the conspiracy hoodoo circles take claims of "agents" at face value. As it is not a default assumption of mine, I have never understood it. My experience is when people start claiming there are agents etc and they are asked to further explain themselves, or God help them, for proof, things get very very woolly. If one is approaching 9/11 "truth" from a historical antiwar perspective, the idea of an agent isn't completely improbable. But it's also not going to inspire instant paranoia. On the contrary, if one has no reason to believe they're involved with anything illegal, the idea of catching an agent screwing with my constitutional rights is like Christmas coming early. It's just a matter of catching them at it.
But it's a long, long road to even taking the idea seriously. It requires layers of confidence games that are nonsensical at the time, but have one purpose: to convince the few stubborn people "agents" are at work disrupting "truther" activism.
For instance, one party may send a gushing email thanking the target for "everything they do". They hope the target engages, shares more information, which is passed on to other members of the con, members the target is either unaware of or has been given to believe the contact disapproves of. Weeks or months pass. If the target remains stubborn or becomes problematic in other ways, this information is leaked "anonymously". Sometimes even the party who had complimented the target abruptly and publicly switches sides. Others will say pompously: "See, told ya there were agents!" (Years later all these people will be exposed as working the same con because eventually te piss off the wrong people. But that's another story.)
This works with disturbing regularity. The first assumption should not be of agents, but of a con. Because it doesn't matter if the person is an agent or not; contacting people under false pretences to manipulate them is fraud. And fraud...and conspiracy to commit fraud, and using ISP/emails for malicious communications... are all actual crimes. As Lazo's associate Mark Fisher found out.
And this is why it is my personal belief the Myth of "Agents" in the truth movement is protected at all costs: once it's obvious the so called "agent" activity is a fraud, it will be impossible to control or protect what is left of the "truther" movement.
But even knowing how absurd and unlikely "agents" are, it is still useful to once and for all put the matter at rest: The reason we know---not suspect, but know-- there are no Cointepro/CIA agents active to disrupt 9/11 truth is because the very merchants of these conspiracies were customers of the CIA affiliate STRATFOR.
In late 2011- early 2012, Wikileaks with Anonymous leaked the customer list of STRATFOR, a private intelligence firm that did work for the CIA. The lists included names, email addresses and credit card numbers. STRATFOR denied they had a security breach, but it was all posted at the Dazzlepod site, where anyone could look up their information.
In the last year it was deleted but one can find the home page in wayback.
On December 25, 2011, the Anonymous group hacked into a private
intelligence agency, Strategic Forecasting Inc. or STRATFOR, based in
Austin, Texas. The attack began with the release of STRATFOR's client
list announced at https://twitter.com/#!/AnonymousIRC/status/150679351589998593
followed by release of accounts in batches believed to belong to
STRATFOR's customers. The release announced in another Twitter post at https://twitter.com/#!/AnonymousIRC/status/150985258999885824
includes emails, passwords (hashed with MD5), home/office addresses and
credit card information (full 16-digit number, expiry date and CVV
number). The table below is the list of the leaked accounts with the
passwords removed. STRATFOR has brought down their site following the attack but kept their members posted on the status of the attack via their Facebook page. UPDATE (January 2, 2012): We have processed all
860,000 STRATFOR's registered users and added them into the table below.
These users do not have their credit card information leaked. The
earlier accounts with credit card information leaked are now tagged with
"cc" in the table below. This disclosure was mentioned in PCWorld, Forbes, CNN, MSNBC, FOX News and TheBlaze. UPDATE (December 30, 2011): The Anonymous group has
just released the remaining accounts making the total of leaked
STRATFOR's accounts with credit card information to a total of approx.
75,000. The table below has been updated to include these accounts.
Additionally, login information for approx. 860,000 STRATFOR's
registered users have been leaked as well but they don't include credit
card information; we may update the table below to include these users
later.
At the time, for people who still thought there was something to "trutherism" this was exciting news. Immediately the trusting and naive started looking for evidence on Wikileaks of an "inside job". They came up with nothing and slowly decided Wikileaks was "controlled opposition". For instance, this article implies STRATFOR was "concerned":
Wikileaks email dump shows Stratfor’s Burton concerned about skepticism concerning Osama narrative Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Tuesday, March 6, 2012
The deluge of Stratfor.com emails released a result of
the recent Wikileaks data dump includes a brief note from Stratfor’s
vice president for intelligence Fred Burton in which he urges the U.S.
government to show photos of Osama Bin Laden’s corpse in order to
silence “lunatics like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck” who had questioned the
government’s official narrative behind the death of the terror
mastermind....
This was eyerollingly predictable and strained, even to people who still bought "truthersim". There are only so many times one can claim "cointelpro/controlled opposition/disinfo" before it's a clear mantra to explain away inconvenient facts. Could it be the reason there was no evidence of an "Inside Job" is that there was no "Inside Job"?
That by itself would be disappointing in the sense of wasting time on something that wasn't real. But even more troubling was that at least two conspiracy websites that pushed the 911 truth movement, Before it's News and Infowars, knew it wasn't real. Or at least knew they weren't targets of the CIA or any affiliated agency action. Because both these websites were STRATFOR customers and listed on dazzlepod...under identifiable email addresses:
Infowars and Before its News aren't the only ones. Craig "Killtown" Lazo's Portland group and associates had a ridiculously high percentage of STRATFOR customers, including a woman who was part of a radical radio station who had promoted group events:
3. FOLLOWING SWEARING IN OF CABINET, MAKARIOS TOLD PRESS THAT
"NATIONAL COUNCIL" HAS BEEN SET UP TO ADVISE PRESIDENT ON BROAD
POLICY ISSUES. UNIFIED PARTY WILL BE REPRESENTED BY TASSOS PAPA-
DOPOULOS, PROGRESSIVE FRONT BY STAVROS POSKOTIS, AKEL BY PARTY
LEADER PAPAIOANNOU, EDEK BY LYSSARIDES, AND DEK BY TAKIS EVDOKAS.
PRO-ENOSIS ESEA HAS NOT YET NAMED REPRESENTATIVE. CLERIDES IS
EX-OFFICIO MEMBER.
JT Waldron: Conspiracy hack who joined Craig Lazo's Portland truther group(s) in 2010, 2011(?). Website plays the just asking questions game, while comments are frequently and virulently anti semetic. Really, really wants you to believe the CIA threatened 9/11 researchers.
For those of you who feel up to an
anarcho-syndicalist and historically critical view of current events,
stay tuned for the sort of dissent that is tacitly banned from the
corporate-owned media. My surprise at the attacks did not stem from the
assumption that they would never occurñI was merely shocked, as
everyone was, by the sudden and terrifying loss of life. Given the
simplicity of the attack, and the gravity of US provocations around the
world for decades, it is remarkable that there have been so few major
acts of violence on US soil. In the wake of the US destruction of
democracy in Iran in 1954, for example, the CIA set up torture dungeons
to aid the rule of the US puppet, the Shah. Here I use the word
ìtorture dungeonî in a specific sense; the world saw, after the fall of
the Shahís regime, that underground prisons had been constructed, in
which dissidents were tortured using information passed along by the
CIA.
Apparently her misgivings didn't extend to subscriptions with CIA associates.
Most of these people have claimed at one time or another to be targets of the CIA/COINTELPRO/Agents and yet they somehow didn't have the foresight to use a burner email account when registering with a business affiliate of the CIA.
From the Mises website(mises.com and mises.org are owned by the same group):
The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies -
Mises Community Archive ...
mises.org/.../forums/t/forums/t/32086.aspx
Ludwig von Mises Institute
Oct 18, 2012 - 33 posts - 14 authors
The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies
... This brings the unrelated postings to the top of the forum list,
and the critical posting 'slides' down ...
This is a redirect to this posting. Maybe the person posted it really believed it, but clearly the people running Mises don't.
And neither does Webster Tarpley. He's got one article about "How to identify a CIA limited Hanghout". But the most priceless one is accusing Wikileaks of being Cognitive Infiltration. I'd suspect this was revenge for the Anonymous STRATFOR leak, except this article was published 9 months too soon. In any case, the most suspicious omission from Tarpley's website is any mention of STRATFOR after the customer email list was leaked.
Any real activist who knew about STRATFOR would know the business they were in and take a basic precaution of using a fake email. The fact none of these people used a burner account indicates they all KNEW the conspiracy of 911 and their persecution by or concern about agents was a lie.
The anticipated fall-back position will be : "That proves THEY are the agents! Duh!"
Hmm, no. A real agent would use separate emails to communicate with an "agency" and the people they were "disrupting". To not do so would get them fired. These people are reckless amateurs, displaying the usual arrogance of Libertarian/patriot conspiracy frauds thinking they'd never be caught. You'd think they'd learn after the nth time Anonymous/antifa/ara leaked their emails...
So why did they subscribe to STRATFOR's services? One probable reason is if you're trying to dupe people into believing a worldwide conspiracy and you claim to have special knowledge, it's really helpful if you do have some privy information to impress the rubes. Someone with that type of access could hot read rubes all day long. Who knows, maybe that's how Alex Jones made his fortune.
The point is , by using identifiable emails to subscribe to a CIA affiliated service, these people prove they know they are NOT targets of the CIA. Therefore their claims of agents/disruptors are lies. Since this is their basis of proof that a 911 "Inside Job" truth is being suppressed, one can also conclude, since they know these agents don't exist, there is no 9/11 conspiracy for any agents to suppress.
This may seem backwards from the obvious observation outside the conspiracy culture: that there are no agents because there is no conspiracy, but remember it's these individuals who worked overtime, with a variety of confidence games, to convince people "agents were out there". By subscribing to services with STRATFOR, a corporation who works closely with the CIA, they showed they never believed in agents or the conspiracy except as a means to defraud people.
The reason there are no agents is because "Trutherism" is a fraud and there is nothing to "suppress". And the leaders
who invented the truther theories knew it. I patiently await the day
they all end up in federal prison. It wouldn't be the first time for
some of these political frauds.
Mark Fisher is better known among the 911 "truther" community as "logicfish".
Fisher was specifically a part of a sub community used by the creepiest of creeps to intimidate and threaten people, hoping to convince them "agents" were out to get them. Fisher's old blogger profile was littered with links and projects to WQ2RX, a video tag cipher invented by either Fisher or his long time mentor Spiney aka Andrew Kelly. (Later, in 2008, Fisher registered a WQ2RX domain, but the tag had already been used for months)
A list of Fisher's blogs follows; though many are just copycat themes Spiney used, there are titles (in italics) were shared by Spiney, :
Some of these projects were dedicated to helping Craig "Killtown" Lazo and friends get away with "murder"...or at least harassment and defamation. The WQ2RX brand was used by at least Fisher, Kelly, "Webfairy", Fred BSregistration and "Ozzybinoswald" aka Greg Thomson. The last is relevant because Thomson had the most and worst videos, a few which were reported for having "sexed up" images of preteen girls.
[For the record, according to one of "Ozzy" Thomson's former acquaintances claimed he was an "information clearing house" for "truther" projects. Thomson's story is he was sent batches of images/information and told to mix them up in videos and he never examined the contents closely. Even if this is true, Thomson is still responsible for the results of his "work".]
This was in the middle of the "Harley Guy" scam project,
http://911-harley-shirt-guy.blogspot.com/
which did not go well(link). Finally, in some desperate attempt at a rubber/glue strategy, Lazo got Fisher and Kelly to spam blogs and Facebook pages claiming his critics might be scientologists and paedophiles and stalkers. This one was set up under Fisher's name.
For reasons that will probably never be explained, Fisher and Kelly then embarked on an Internet Spam crusade claiming to "expose" paedophiles in their community(Hudderfield, United Kingdom) with the flimsiest of "proof".
It's bizarre and baffling. Perhaps they were trying to make their blogs viral to hide their rubbish in the digital noise? If so, they failed spectacularly. Someone did notice, and they were not amused.
A man made vile online claims about people he held a grudge by claiming they were paedophiles.
Now Mark Fisher has been ordered to be detained in hospital.
Fantasist Fisher, of Fenton Road, Lockwood, posted the damaging comments online.
One of his victims, a schoolteacher, has been unable to return to work because of the false allegations made by the 44-year-old
District Judge Michael Fanning told him: “You made harmful and utterly baseless allegations against a number of individuals.
“The allegations you made are a fantasy and in one instance you harmed the career of one of your victims.”
Fisher
was convicted after a trial of nine charges under the Malicious
Communications Act of updating a website with grossly offensive
articles.
He was found guilty of a further charge of harassment.
Oh, this does not look good for the conspiracy stalking crowd. It turns out there are consequences for spinning unfounded lies about people who never agreed to be part of a conspiracy freakshow. It get's better, er, worse:
The court heard that Fisher initially targeted one male victim with his lies.
Vanessa Jones, prosecuting, told Kirklees Magistrates’ Court:
“Mr Fisher published on a couple of blog sites and Facebook some
unpleasant information about this gentleman in relation to paedophile
involvement.”
Fisher put a picture of the victim on the social networking site with a link to the website linked to a known sex offender.
But Fisher claimed that on his page were the details of ‘suspected perverts’ living in Huddersfield.
Ah yes, the good ol semantics defence. It's a favorite of Lazo's ("It's suspected that Val's photo is fake") and casseia ("It's not a lie, it's my opinion.") Turns out in the real world, the legal system is not impressed by disingenuous semantics.
Fisher's target tried to resolve things like a normal person. I could have told him how that would have ended:
The
victim told Fisher that the allegations were false and asked him to
take the information off the site, which Fisher refused to do.
But what's interesting, and surprising, is some of Fisher's friends had tried an intervention...this hardly ever happens in the conspiracy scene:
Others who knew Fisher responded and told him they were not happy about him making these claims.
Mrs Jones said: “Four other people who knew Mr Fisher expressed their displeasure.
“They were added to the list that Mr Fisher felt were part of paedophile involvement.
Ouch, but not surprising to anyone who has observed the conspiracy Borg in action. If you aren't with them, you are against them. Needless to say the judge was not convinced:
Judge Fanning told him: “The allegations you made against them are a fantasy, linking them to paedophilia.”
He
said that some of the victims were wrongly linked to terrorism while
Fisher accused another of causing the death of her husband, when he was
killed by a tragic accident.
In Making the hospital order, the
judge said: “I am satisfied that you will continue to offend against
these individuals or cast your net wider to involve those against whom
you hold a grudge.”
But how did Mark Fisher go so far astray?
The Long Slide Into Conspiracy Fantasies and Mental Imbalance
Fisher didn't become this way over night. They say he's mentally ill and that could explain a lot:
The court heard that Fisher, who had no previous convictions, suffers from mental illness.
But I'm
hesitant to give Fisher that excuse. Fisher knew he was spreading lies
about people when he worked with Spiney on the WQ2RX project, and when he
helped spread Craig Lazo's blackmail stalking lies on Facebook and
sundry websites. So it's hard for me to imagine Fisher didn't know he
was lying about calling these people paedophiles.
I think it's more likely Fisher, much like Lazo, Thomson, and many other players in the online "truther" game, became habituated to shooting their mouths off about any crazy BS. Since they rarely were held accountable, they started to believe they were untouchable. Craig Lazo all but brags about it, posing disingenuous rhetoricals like, "If it's not true Val faked her photo why don't her friends defend her?" Lazo can't fathom the obvious: because she's warned them to stay out of it. Wynahusen isn't much better: "If 'killtowns' wrong, why hasn't Google removed his blog?", conveniently ignoring the well known fact contacting Google is a nightmare.
Well, she's not really ignoring it, is she? Lazo and Wynhausen know damn well how difficult it is to pursue a complaint with Google...that's why the worst of their lies about people are hosted on Google websites. Fisher was part of this strategy and was active so long it's possible his participation in craziness took it's toll.
Becoming the mask is always a risk for people pretending to be something they're not, even if they have good intentions. If they have malicious intentions, one can only wonder at the psychic toll over the years. The WQ2RX brand was conceived by Oct of 2007, along with dog4tree and other channels set up to spread it. Most people involved were active at Youtube and Livevideo.
Fisher's Youtube account is connected with Google+. His livevideo account was:
In early 2007 his Livevideo had a Mature Content Warning, shades of the porn problems to come. There are videos of 9/11 conspiracies, mixed with crop circle and UFO woo. By the end of 2007 September Clues was out, and being promoted like crazy in Fisher's likes, along with bizarre conspiracies about Robin Hood and Apollo 13.
By this time Fisher was well in an committed to the "woo" lifestyle. Even years later, after the demise of Lazo's 911movement forum, they kept a hand in.
Fisher's friend Kelly would post as Spiney once in the new "Clues" forum:
One blog is more obvious being full of WQ2RX and "Ozzy" videos:
http://911videomashupdates.blogspot.com/
A sample:
OzzybinOswald2 exposes impossible 9/11 helicopter fake FOX
From: bunny4carrot
Added: November 25, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyttxUHcoXc
MEENA Wq2rx SEXY Tvfakery SAREE Ak1rd FCS Akørd NIPPLES Kv4ri
Added: November 25, 2007
Submitted By: rabbit8carrot to rabbit8carrot's Channel
The obsession with sex and porn themes mixed with the WQ2RX tag had legs and never really stopped.
For the record, I don't think it was "sex" per se, so much as the idea of tagging videos as sexy or porn related to get greater distribution. From a pure logical perspective it's not a bad plan, if all you're interested in is spreading videos like wildfire, regardless of quality or intent. The problem is, while yes, is you tag or title a video "911 fakery XXX Hot Babes want you NOW", while the video will get attention, it will only get attention from people looking for "XXX Hot Babes". No one clicking the video will have the slightest interest in the September 11th attacks or truther "theories". Once they fail to see HOT BABES, they go away.
Once Ozzy had a meltdown on Lazo's 911movement forum over this, when a member pointed this out. "Ozzy" ranted about how Nico was doing the work of fifty men or summat(confirming Nico had been part of the WQ2RX crew) and the member should just STFU. In hindsight this is all rubbish: The WQ2RX videos(a project most likely instigated by Fetzer) had no intention of being a medium to push "truth". Their sole purpose was to spread propaganda and lies as a creepy intimidation tactic. Members were supposed to either spam them and cheer the project on, or shut up.
No one wants to admit they knew Spiney and Logicfish now: In this archived Reality Shack thread, Simon himself pretends to think a photoshop of Mark Fisher is actually "Ozzy":
I may take my spaceship and land right in front of
the VALLEY FORGERY CON-ference HALL !!
This is a video I just found - apparently made by 'our enemies'...:
Star Trek: WQ2RX Enterprise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXATrfC9HQ
Damn! I just LOVE these 'enemies' of ours... I always dreamt of taking a ride in the Star Trek spaceship...
And now I even get to be Simon S(p)hock !
ps:
I guess that's supposed to be KT in the foreground? Is that you in the
background, Ozzy, with the beard? If so, what a serene and endearing
face !
--------------------
http://www.septemberclues.info
From the screen of the video posted, it's rather obvious to anyone who knows Logicfish aka Mark Fisher, the bearded guy is Fisher, albeit a younger, less manic Fisher:
Remember, all these people knew each other at Livevideo and Craig Lazo's forum. Shack's movie was only promoted by a small fringe of truthers; he knew exactly who was photoshopped in that screengrab. These people are running a scam and Fisher was involved. And it is impossible to believe Fisher did not know this was a scam. For whatever reason, Fisher hitched his wagon to "Spiney" and never looked back.
Spiney and Logicfish
They had an old website called SEO Follow. It's dead now, but on their about page one could get some insight into the relationship between these two men:
Spiney & Logicfish have been geeky friends for – let’s just say a
‘long time’ with a combined experience of 50 years computing generally
& over 25 years professionally developing multimedia, software
applications, Content Management Systems & a myriad of websites.
What's interesting is "Spiney" Kelly was always the dominant part of the pair; Kelly would be the one to do the most Internet tough talk. But it was Fisher who registered, and was responsible for their domains. Fisher may have done most of the actual computer work, while Spiney took the glory.
The tone of the about page is almost certainly Kelly writing. Fisher is less bold even online. If it's true they've been friends for most of their lives, they could have had a codependent relationship where perhaps Fisher felt safe with big brother Kelly to look after him and give him direction. Such people have weak egos and soft ethical standards, if any. It's hard to imagine Fisher telling Spiney "no" and his actions certainly support his willing involvement in several questionable, if not outright unethical online projects, with no hint of objection:
2007-2009? WQ2RX stalking videos
2010-2011 Setting up a couple of Facebook stalking pages
2011 Believes in magical ways to make money online:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/mark-fisher/the-secrets-of-cash-blogging/10150202965521980
2011-late: Fisher was helping Kelly, help Lazo set up vindictive Facebook pages, calling for people to stalk Lazo's enemies, claiming in a great exercise of projection they used "blackmail and death threats to close down websites" and they have "joined pedo chat rooms" .
This group is gone, but there is a screen:
It's hard to be angry with Fisher. From his avatar he looks quite deranged and clearly is parroting Lazo's lies with Kelly's encouragement. None of the people who joined his group look like they have all their marbles either. Unfortunately, some crazies do become violent, hence the reporting and deletion of their page. The sick part is that of the two Spiney knows what he's doing and set Fisher up to take the fall. The really sick part is that Fisher, being emotionally dependent on Spiney, might not have cared.
But what happens when the dominant partner in a grifter gang dies?
KELLY
ANDREW
(SPINEY)
April 26, 2014.
Aged
45 years. Suddenly whilst at home with his partner Carayna Zyeustt,
Andrew Nicholas, only son of Edward and the late June Rose Kelly, much
loved and sadly missed. Funeral at Huddersfield Crematorium on Thursday,
May 15 at 10.00 a.m. Friends please accept this intimation.
The loss of a dominate party affects people differently. Some finally come out of their shell and take charge of their lives. Others collapse in on themselves and pass away soon after. But some take on the dominate traits of the deceased, though not necessarily with the same effectiveness. This appears to be the path Fisher has taken, to mimic his idol but without his idol's talent.
Kelly was able to harass people online for years without ever seeing the inside of a jail cell, much less a mental ward. Oh, he lost websites, he lost Facebook accounts, but Kelly was savvy: he distanced himself as far as possible from the end results of his actions via patsies. That's why all his website were registered in Mark Fisher's name. That gives the lawyers a nice merry-go-round. Fisher was too direct, perhaps impatient for the adrenaline rush he was used to. And he rushed straight into a mental ward for it.
What the future holds
From the article:
Fisher will be kept in hospital for an
initial six-month term. Upon his release he must comply with a
restraining order, banning him from contacting six named victims.
Fisher is also banned from posting any images or material about them online.
In
addition he is prohibited from maintaining the material already
published by him, meaning that any offensive posts will need to be taken
down.
The future for Mr. Fisher is uncertain. He's not only without his long time friend and mentor Kelly, he's also without the extended support network that reinforced Fishers belief in invincibility. This could be a good thing if Fisher's responsive to therapy. Without the conspiracy crazies filling his head with grandiose crazy talk, Fisher could see how wasted his life has been and cut himself off from the conspiracy Borg that took over and destroyed his life. He could make new friends, find sane computer nerds to socialize with. If Fisher wants to this could be a golden opportunity to turn his life around.
I am cautiously optimistic but also realistic. Most people in Fisher's situation have very little ego keeping them together. That's how they fell into their situation in the first place. Whether they did it for thrills or to belong or to lash out, they don't have the internal emotional resources to cope with stress and anxiety, and so they lash out at "faceless" targets online.
Since at least 2007 Fisher has been part of a toxic, manipulative conspiracy network that operates much like a cult. A person who has been involved with a predatory group for 8 years and has not noticed something is wrong, clearly cannot do this by themselves. Whether, even after intervention, they will be able to see the problem remains to be seen.
It is far more likely they will rally their defence mechanisms to avoid, deflect and project blame; make excuses like "free speech" and claim to be persecuted. For people like this confronting the fact they have wasted their lives for nothing is just too horribly painful to face. At least without help.
A bad sign already is the directive that "any offensive posts will need to be taken
down", presumably at the end of Fisher's treatment. I'm not sure why they shouldn't forcibly be taken down ASAP, perhaps as a condition of no further legal action against Fisher. That would be more than reasonable.
I hope for Fisher's sake, and frankly everyone else that encounters him, he's about to get the help he needs. Fisher is up for evaluation and possible release in October. I guess we'll find out then.
*************
Archived connections on Livevideo, other associations and commentary.
The Livevideo website died several years back, no one really knows why. However much evidence of the Activities of Fisher's associates remain in wayback:
Spiney(Andrew Kelly) : http://www.livevideo.com/spineyextra
Viewing his channel in wayback, he has a link to a blog whining about censorship on Livevideo. The first post implies
some videos got blacklisted. What? The guy has a thing for WQ2RX and
PORN and his videos got blacklisted? Poor baby. This is also where we
have a good inkling Kelly is an anti semite if the art for this blog is
an indication:
Shacks Livevideo channel: http://livevideo.com/socialservice
instructive statement from archive:
Sunday, June 10, 2007 at 3:04 PM
Important note : having read some
comments on well-known sites linking this research to various
organizations, I want to stress that :
I am not linked to any special
interests or, in fact, to anyone whatsoever. I'm a LONE researcher am
not affiliated to organizations of any kind. Of course, I have a few
very smart friends out there which have helped me through - you know
who you are, I love you all.
Now, if anyone questions the
authenticity of the TV footage used for this research - go to the 911
Chronology Sources Television Archive it's there for all to see :
http://www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive
BUT BE WARNED : the entire FOX5
helicopter-shot has been edited out and replaced with planeless shot
(only fireball) similar to CBS's - while commentary has remained
unaltered...
(We'll be looking for
the full clip of the "Harley Guy". And if it is there, it will prove
that anyone pretending to not know who Mark Humphrey is knew they were
creating a scam.)
Lazo's support an promotion of September Clues on his blog:
Her channel, now only in wayback,
promoted September Clues fanatically, even though she only had one
friend, "ewing2001". However a screenshot of her channel at another
time shows she was "friends " with Fisher's partner "Spiney":
Jennifer's participation seems to be gathering and feeding information in addition to boosting search results with "likes".
Keep in mind at all times the people involved with making and trying to
sell September Clues to the truther crowd knew they were pushing a
fraud.
Wynhausen and Lazo aren't the only
Libertarians who jumped on this bandwagon. Lew Rockwell, Rick Siegel
and Fred Smart are others; it was Smart who dragged "Webfairy"
into the truther con where she'd be exploited by Fetzer and others. The high percentage of Libertarian truthers in positions of influence implies a political "long con".
I
still don't see what Libertarians tangibly get out of this--money,
political capital, whatever--- but the Libertarian/fringe right
involvement pushing the theories is too well documented to dismiss. It's
possible they had a "plan" that never worked or panned out, or was
abandoned midway, leaving the participants to lunge about online like a
chicken with it's head cut off. And, like with real conspiracies and
crimes, not every detail will always be explained or make sense. But
this is a persistently baffling one. It may say less about their
craftsmanship at building a "long con" and more about the Libertarian
mindset's bias to grandiose and magical thinking, believing
they are just so special they'll get away with anything "just cuz".
stallion4: part of the WQ2RX crew at livevideo https://web.archive.org/web/20070613083959/http://www.livevideo.com/stallion4
...made a video called "An Angry Secret in the Lair of the Thermite Sniffers: WQ2RX"
The link, http://thehuddersfielddailyexaminer.magnify.net/ goes to a dead page but in wayback one can see it's yet another project of Spiney's spreading lies and WQ2RX rubbish.
Nico Ripped Off By Gary Welz' Cheesy WQ2Rx Thermite Posted 2007-10-18. Rated 9.1 by 1 person. No comments. Post a comment. OzzybinOswald2 wrote: Dog22Peach's weekly report:
http://www.thewebfairy.com/911 /home.htm SEPT 11 2001 WQ2RX MEDIA CELL MURDERED AMERICANS IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, not ATTA or United Flight 175.
[The only thing this Petros person is notable for at Truthaction is getting himself banned for trolling, at which his buddy "casseia" whines somewhere on the Internet:
I think for the sake of posterity it might be worthwhile to document
"the score" for the sake of people who don't know, because it's just so
patently outrageous -- the last outrage being the banning of Petros,
purely on the basis of his association with me or this site or perhaps
Col. Jenny's personal antipathy. YT's monster ego doesn't help.
The underlined text refers to a specific lie this individual tried to float in Aug 2007, though this comment is dated March 2008(points for persistence!), but that's another convoluted story. Suffice it to saw no one had any antipathy for Petrol, or "casseia" for that matter, until it was clear they were liars running a scam with the same people they were "denouncing". The sleazeball would go on to entertain White Supremacist supporters(Kevin Barrett) before being exposed as a conartist, which at this late date is a surprise to no one.]
The constant reference back to people in Craig Lazo's Portland group made it all but inevitable the WQ2RX garbage would be exposed as a scam created by Lazo's friends, including Mark Fisher, sooner rather than later. Perhaps the stupidest example was when Ozzybinoswald included in his videos requests for information directly addressing Craig Lazo's associates Ginny Ross and Steve Keller:
Just Google Ginny Ross and Craig Lazo...
Mark Fisher's Logicfish friendfeed account:
friendfeed.com/logicfish
The website was closed down April 9th, but a screen of his account, with other members of the WQ2RX crew survives:
Videos of related Police Investigation
Fisher has unwisely uploaded videos to his vimeo account of police investigating his home after his arrest last year, or, as Fisher prefers to call it, his "detainment". From the time stamps on the videos, Fishers trouble with law enforcement started in October of 2014.
He also has a video of the actual arrest...were the "meanie" coppers let him get his shoes before they take him to the station. Oh, and, Fisher makes a point of being "disabled". Whatever.
An internet troll who branded innocent people paedophiles and terrorists has been convicted of harassment.
Fantasist Mark Fisher, 44, posted damaging comments online about people he held a grudge against....
